Waste Oil Heater Forum - Your definitive source for burning waste oil for heat.
Waste Oil Heater => Waste Motor Oil => Topic started by: coldblooded on January 20, 2023, 06:20:46 pm
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Hello, I'm new to waste oil burners. I'm shopping around for an oil furnace to convert to waste oil. Can I get some advise on what to look for? Would one with a Beckett BF3 be a good choice? Also, will I be hooking up my compressor to it? Thanks.
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Greetings Coldblooded!
Will you be going forced air or a boiler? Yes, Beckett burners are easy to convert, especially with CKburners kits:
http://ckburners.com/
The CK kit will require an air source (siphon system versus pressure system) so yes, using an air compressor will be required.
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Hi Russ,
Yes, it would be a forced air system. I'm shopping around for a used fuel oil furnace on Facebook to convert to waste oil. I've looked into the CK kits. It looks like they currently have a kit for $320 and a better one for $650. I understand I should look for a fuel oil furnace with a Beckett AFG or AF burner, and the combustion chamber should be at least 12 inches deep.
Thanks for your reply and any advise would be appreciated.
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Sounds like you are on the right track for sure.
Not a forced air project, but otherwise going to be pretty similar to what you are looking at doing, check out my build here:
http://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=208
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I'm looking to buy a used Williamson fuel oil furnace in very good condition with an AF burner for $200 to convert to waste oil. 119,000 BTU I think. Do you think I'll be able to measure the combustion chamber when I go look at it? Any suggestions? Should I buy it?
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If it is in decent shape I think that is a great price. As you will notice with my boiler, I have a short burn chamber. I was able to overcome this somewhat by extending the tube that connects the burner to the furnace. You may be able to do this too if you have to. I think forced air furnaces typically have a larger burn chamber so you might be fine. Hard to say how easy it is to remove the burner, but if you can you could certainly measure. I would think you should be able to make it work.
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OK, good to know, Thanks!
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I’m looking to buy a used Thermaflow fuel oil furnace with a round burn chamber that is 17" in diameter. Is this suitable for a waste oil conversion? I heard that the burn chamber should be at least 12". Is that 12" in front of where the flame starts? How far does the burner stick into the burn chamber? Thanks.
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I would think the 17" should be plenty. Should get good and hot to burn off any unburnt oil that hits it. Yea I suspect they are talking form where the flame starts. In my boiler the burner tube sticks inside the furnace about 3 inches. Not sure that they are all that way though.
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OK. I found one for $75. I think he said it worked for a while, but it got so he had to keep resetting something to get it to fire and he gave up. I'll re-read your post about your boiler project, and as time goes on, probably be asking more questions. Thanks for your reply!
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Sounds good. Good luck with the project!
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I bought a used Thermaflow fuel oil furnace to convert to waste oil. What's that white stuff in the burn chamber? Should I scrape it out? Thanks.
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I believe that is just ash. I get quite a bit of that when burning oil. Its good to clean out if it is excessive, but be careful not to damage the insulation. If it doesnt come off easily, or isnt very bad, I would just leave it until you collect more after burning oil.
Looks good!
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OK, sounds good. Somebody else also said it's a fiber liner and I shouldn't scrape it off.
What can you tell me about the air supply that is needed? What's the PSI and cfm? Is it better to have a little on board compressor to supply the air? I don't know what would work.
Thanks.
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Oh, yea the thick part is the liner, that's the part you don't want to damage. Its like a firebrick, otherwise you would probably burn through the chamber.
For my siphon system I think I am running somewhere around 6 or 8 psi. I used to have the shop compressor connected, but it seemed like overkill and I didn't want to keep putting hours on it, so I bought a Thomas 2660 vacuum pump. It will work as a vacuum pump or a compressor. It is very quiet and small. It kicks on with the burner and runs the entire time. It's more than enough air for a siphon system. I would never go back to using a full size compressor.
The new Harbor Freight ultra quiet compressors use the same style compressor I belive.
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Thanks Russ!
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What is a good size line to use between my steel drum oil storage tank and the ammo box? Can I go with 1/4 inch, or is a different size better? Thanks
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It's been so long that I don't remember what I used. I think I used something like 3/8.
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Ok. I'm going to get a steel drum and weld a 3/8 nipple on it and attach a shutoff and line.
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What happens if you don't have an air solenoid on the air inlet? I should get a NC (normally closed) one right? And any advice on wiring it up?
I bought a 2660 vacuum pump, but it doesn't have a capacitor. Any advice on finding the right capacitor for it?
Thanks
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I only used a solenoid when I used my big compressor. You need something to cut the air off when the furnace is shut down or it would continue to blow air and siphon fuel along with it. I just left mine in when I got my vacuum pump because I was lazy, but really wouldn't need it because the pump switches on and off with the burner with no storage tank to keep supplying air so it quits just as soon as the pump stops.
I am no expert on capacitors, but mine has an Amrad R2000/37-156 on it.
Hope that helps.
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thank you sir
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I hooked up my ckburner kit for the 1st time. I got it to light but the blower fan quits turning and the flame goes out shortly after. Craig said something about the pre-purge/delay, and the air solenoid, but I don’t have an air solenoid. Why is this happening? What should I do? Thanks.
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Good to see flame, but bummer to hear that it doesn't keep going. If no air solenoid, how are you starting and stopping the air flow? There is usually a flame sensor that will shut everything down if it doesnt see a flame to prevent fuel from going everywhere. Is it possible the sensor is not seeing the flame or otherwise not working for some reason?
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Good to see flame, but bummer to hear that it doesn't keep going. If no air solenoid, how are you starting and stopping the air flow? There is usually a flame sensor that will shut everything down if it doesnt see a flame to prevent fuel from going everywhere. Is it possible the sensor is not seeing the flame or otherwise not working for some reason?
Hi Russ, Hope you are well. To test the flame sensor, I bypassed it. But the problem didn't go away. CK said "Sounds like you have a safety that has a pre purge delay. If this is the case, the air solenoid needs to be on the valve terminals. The cad cell cannot see light during the pre purge delay". I'm sure he's right but I haven't figured out what he means yet. I don't have a air solenoid, I took your advice and have a onboard Thomas 2660 vacuum pump/compressor and really don't know how to wire it up, or how to connect the wires to the safety. As a test, I'm currently just manually plugging the onboard compressor in when the burner motor starts. How do I wire up the vacuum pump? I didn't think I needed a air solenoid, but I guess I do. Thanks.
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In your case you don't have an air solenoid and you don't need one. You would use a solenoid if you had a large compressor with an air tank. That air tank would always have air in it and if you didn't have a solenoid, the air would continue to flow, even when the burner was shut off. In your case, you are controlling the air flow by turning your vacuum pump on and off, eliminating the need for a solenoid. So when CK says to connect your solenoid to the valve terminals, you could just connect your compressor there instead. The question that I am unsure about is if the valve terminals supply 110V, and if they do, would they provide enough current to start and run your vacuum pump. I will look at my setup tonight and see if my pump is powered directly from the primary control, or if I have some sort of relay installed, I cant remember. But in the meantime you can certainly plug and unplug it as you need. When you plug it in, it should be providing air to siphon the fuel. And then if you have spark, you should have ignition. Now, as to why it is shutting down shortly after it starts, it seems like a safety kicking in somewhere. Do you have a display on your control that indicates what might be happening?
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In your case you don't have an air solenoid and you don't need one. You would use a solenoid if you had a large compressor with an air tank. That air tank would always have air in it and if you didn't have a solenoid, the air would continue to flow, even when the burner was shut off. In your case, you are controlling the air flow by turning your vacuum pump on and off, eliminating the need for a solenoid. So when CK says to connect your solenoid to the valve terminals, you could just connect your compressor there instead. The question that I am unsure about is if the valve terminals supply 110V, and if they do, would they provide enough current to start and run your vacuum pump. I will look at my setup tonight and see if my pump is powered directly from the primary control, or if I have some sort of relay installed, I cant remember. But in the meantime you can certainly plug and unplug it as you need. When you plug it in, it should be providing air to siphon the fuel. And then if you have spark, you should have ignition. Now, as to why it is shutting down shortly after it starts, it seems like a safety kicking in somewhere. Do you have a display on your control that indicates what might be happening?
I don't have much of a display. It's just a solid or flashing red light indicating a lock out condition. But CK also said "7505b has a prepurge delay. Don't turn the air on until it does its 15 seconds prepurge. It says it has a 15 second pre". So I think he means, let it call for heat, the blower motor will turn on and the ignitor will start sparking, then I should wait 15 seconds to plug in the compressor. But I thought if the ignitor sparks for 15 seconds it'll lock out. I need to get out there and try it and see what happens.
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another picture
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Everything looks blank in the pictures. Do you have any lights when it is lighting or after it quits?
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Everything looks blank in the pictures. Do you have any lights when it is lighting or after it quits?
Sorry about the pictures. The manual tells what all the lights do. But I got some more info from CK.
CK said to hook it up this way: "limit gets 110v, L2 gets neutral. Solenoids go on the valve terminal. Motor terminals powers the motor AND ignition transformer. THE NOZZLE CANNOT SEE AIR PRESSURE UNTIL AFTER THE 15 SECOND PRE PURGE".
So the valve terminals are 110V, but like you said, will this supply enough current to run the vacuum pump? And, if I hook it up the way he said, the ignitor will always be sparking when the blower motor is running, right? I think he's saying, if you use the valve terminals to turn your air on, there will be a 15 second delay before the oil ignites, and that's what you want. If the oil ignites before the 15 seconds, the burner shuts down, and that is what I have been experiencing. I was plugging my vacuum pump in before the 15 second delay, and that's what caused it to shut down. At least that's what I get out of what CK said. What do you think? Thanks.
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I finally got the burner to light and stay burning. Using the motor wire to run the air solenoid won't work. If you use the motor wire to run the air solenoid, it will light and the eye will see flame before the 15 second pre purge, and the system will shut down. You have to use the VALVE TERMINALS to turn on the air solenoid. I don't know what the 15 second pre purge (associated with the valve terminals) is designed to do, but you have to wait 15 seconds before you make a flame, or else the system will shut down. I don't use a air solenoid. I have a on board air compressor (a Thomas 2660 vacuum pump) without a tank that I'll just turn on and off as needed (see picture). I'll go from the valve terminals to a relay to the air compressor. I've got it wired so the ignitor does NOT stay arcing all the time. Thanks Russ, for all your input.
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Here's the Thomas 2660 vacuum pump that I use for the compressed air.
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Good to hear you got it to keep running. You will have to post back and let us know how it works when turning off the spark. I tried it once but didnt have very good luck so mine is on all of the time while the burner is on.
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Good to hear you got it to keep running. You will have to post back and let us know how it works when turning off the spark. I tried it once but didnt have very good luck so mine is on all of the time while the burner is on.
I'll try to let you know how mine works with the spark turning off. Mine turns off after about 25 seconds. What kind of problems were you having before you kept the spark on all of the time while the burner is on? Thanks.
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I dont remember exactly. I think it might have actually went out if I didn't keep the spark going. Or it wouldn't burn cleanly.
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Good to hear you got it to keep running. You will have to post back and let us know how it works when turning off the spark. I tried it once but didnt have very good luck so mine is on all of the time while the burner is on.
Hi Russ, I'm getting back to you. I've been running my furnace for a month with the burner wired up to turn the spark off when it sees a flame, and it's been working perfectly. The temps around here have been warm (40 degrees F), though. If that matters. I don't know how it will work when it gets real cold, like minus 10 below zero. I'm having problems with my float valve though. It doesn't work, it sticks. Any ideas on how to keep the oil level constant in my float tank? Thanks.
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Interesting, I might have to give it a try again myself. I have worn out at least 2 primarys, so that would certainly help keep the hours down on my current one.
As for the float tank, I dont have any good ideas to make it better. Like you, I started out with a CL tank, but had many problems with it and finally built a metering pump. It works great and I highly recommend it. Here is the topic where I discuss what I did to build it:
https://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=293.0
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Interesting, I might have to give it a try again myself. I have worn out at least 2 primarys, so that would certainly help keep the hours down on my current one.
As for the float tank, I dont have any good ideas to make it better. Like you, I started out with a CL tank, but had many problems with it and finally built a metering pump. It works great and I highly recommend it. Here is the topic where I discuss what I did to build it:
https://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=293.0
Thanks. I'll consider a metering pump.