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Author Topic: Transfer Pumps?  (Read 1968 times)

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2018, 07:36:45 pm »
    Hey Oilburner,  I have watch your videos a lot.
 How does your 1/3hp 2800rpm ac motor handle waste motor oil at freezing temps and below?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:51:32 pm by doug »
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http://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=102.0

Oilburner

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 08:47:17 am »

I have no idea.  I don't live in a frozen hell hole where I have to worry! :0)
If the oil is still liquid like enough to flow down a pipe, these pumps will move it. The load on the motor will be more but depends how long you run it. I wouldn't try to pump an IBC full of frozen oil in one go with it but a 200L drum would just be OK.

If you need to pump a lot of really thick oil then you would need to get a motor up to the job and i'd be looking at something more like 2 HP so you had some margin.

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 02:45:14 pm »

 I don't live in a frozen hell hole where I have to worry! :0)


  Ouch! It's not that bad here. It still get mighty cold at times. I'm sure the pump will hold up. Just looking for someone that has experience moving waste motor oil at or below freezing temps. Looking to find out what ac motor they're using. I don't want to go overboard on an ac motor. Someone here suggested a lower rpm motor. 2hp sounds a little large. What do I know? Thanks for the help.
You can't put it on the internet if it isn't true!

http://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=102.0

Oilburner

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2018, 06:29:02 pm »
I don't think the physical size of a 2 Hp motor over a smaller one is going to be any different.
Would a 2 HP be more expensive where you are?   Not much difference between a 1/4 Hp and anything up to a 2 here if you buy used.

You are talking about frozen oil which in my very limited experience with very cold and thick oil, puts a LOT of drag on a motor.  I think you'd be a lot better off with something bigger rather than too small.  While a smaller motor may work, a lot would depend on how much oil you want to pump. thicker the slower it will move for a start.
I just don't like to labor things. Shortens their life and they under perform.  A few bucks extra on a motor you don't have to worry about will likely make your free fuel gathering a lot easier and faster and with what you are saving, I always think anything spent on equipment for out oil endeavors within reason is a good investment.

I did look up the power to drive those pumps many years ago. it was something like 4-5 HP at full pressure. Now we aren't using pressure but we are doing more flow the way I mod them and they certainly weren't measuring on oil at freezing temp you can be sure of that. Point is while we can get away with much smaller motors, the power required by the pump in it's OEM config is a lot higher than 2HP anyway so it's not overkill by any means.

One other thought comes to mind...
Why are you even trying to muck around with oil when it is so cold?

I pretty much gather all my oil in the summer when it's the most available being I gather Veg oil.  I can go out and with a little effort and traveling around the area and pick up 2000+  litres in a day and certainly a weekend.  I put it in IBC's to settle which helps with the filtering and basically lay in more than enough stock to get me through the winter ( or year).  I filter and  put away the clean ready to go oil and do not even think of mucking around with it over winter. Come half way through spring or when I feel motivated I start filtering again and make room along the production line for more dirty oil to come in at the end.

You Wake up to these things on how to make the process a lot easier once you have been doing it a while.  :0)

Veg is a lot harder to get in winter ( people don't eat out nearly as much) it's slower to pump and usually has more water and I don't like going out on the cold mornings or nights.  In summer it's quite nice.  And of course  the oil is like water so you don't have to worry about fats and are gone to the next pickup much quicker.

I think the key to the problem may not even be the pump you use but rather preparation so you don't have to worry and can move the stuff easily and when it's not such a chore!


ShopSpecialties

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 09:30:32 pm »
http://redlinepumps.com/

Check out what this guy uses for motors on his pumps.

Oilburner

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2018, 11:51:11 pm »

I have to say, I think the prices of those things are ridiculous and the flow rates, where they do quite them, very optimistic as well.
I have seen YT vids of them pumping before and for what they are and the price, I really think they are taking the mickey out of people who buy them.

It's one thing to invest in decent equipment, it's quite another to get blatantly ripped off.
They just use modified vehicle oil pumps, I think Fords, so they are nothing specialist nor do the job any better.
They use mains powered motors yet still my battery powered scooter motors I use on my pumps will eat their output for breakfast.

I also strongly suspect they have followed the design of my pumps because years ago they were just tapping into the original port of the pump. Now they are welding in 1" elbows same as I have done well before they started with their original design.

Any gear pump will do the job of pumping thick oil. Does not have to be anything special about them.
I did once have a play with those hand cranked pumps. They have a large roror/ vane inside which is good for oil and they are also positive displacement in operation. I believe there is also a twin rotor version that does higher output.
If one were to put a geared motor on one of these things which should not be hard, I reckon it would surpass the performance of my chev pumps given 1" or better size hose.

Even hand cranked, these pumps should do the job on cold oil and are a fraction of the price of those other units.

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2018, 12:23:49 am »
Those Rotodel pump are not vehicle oil pumps. Rotodel is a manufacturer of a gear pumps for a variety of applications. The Baldor motors on some of their setups are the best you can buy and they are not cheap. They are not welding any fittings on since the pump heads already come with NPT threads.

You are pumping cooking oil in what appears to be a mild climate which is totally different from waste motor oils, gear lubes, etc. I only use air diaphragm pumps here in Montana to transfer cold bulk oil from outside to the inside burn tank. A hand crank pump would be ridiculous to even attempt with cold oil. 

Oilburner

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 08:32:14 pm »

I suppose it depends what your definition of cold is.
I have done cold oil with the hand pumps and they work fine. If you are talking about frozen oil, that may be different.

The thing with the redline pumps is no matter how good the motor, they are still relatively low HP. One I saw was 1/3rd Hp.
 That's not a lot of power to move this biblical cold oil everyone goes on about and at decent flow rates.  If it was such a ridiculous idea to try and move this oil with a hand pump, it would be doubly stupid to try and use an electric pump with that low of a power rating and even more stupid to pay that sort of money for one.

I did look at another brand of US made pump years ago that that a really good flow rate. The company made a whole range of different pumps  for all sorts of applications although I seem to recall most of them were rubber vane pumps. They weren't cheap either but I think unless someone was trying to pump something semi solid, they would work.
I have a couple of these brass vane pumps I was given which are popular on boats and they seem to work well on actual liquids as they are designed rather than semi solid material. They are self priming which is what one really needs and once they have bit into the liquid, move it very fast. By design they do have a lot of inherent drag even when pumping oil though so do take a bit of power.  They are very fast though.

I still think the best idea is to wait until things get warmer instead so the oil is more liquid than solid and prepare in advance rather than trying to muck around at the worst possible time.


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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 10:22:24 pm »
Well we have had temps as low as -38*F this Winter so far. My customers are pumping anywhere from 55-500 gallons at a time when they have to go get oil and they do not want to spend hours/days moving this volume of oil with a hand pump.

Not all of the Redline pumps are recommended for cold oil. The one for cold oil has a 3/4 horse, 1,140 RPM Baldor motor that costs $500+ by itself. The pump moves approximately 16 GPM. I have a couple of customers that purchased this pump from Redline and they are happy with it. Yes they are expensive but they work.

I have been doing nothing but waste oil heater/boiler sales and service for 27 years here in Montana. I also design oil storage and pumping systems for my customers. Some of those customers are burning up to 15,000 gallons a Winter and they need a reliable no screw around system that works.