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Author Topic: Transfer Pumps?  (Read 2225 times)

acarter

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Transfer Pumps?
« on: December 20, 2017, 08:33:35 am »
Lets talk pumps... what is everyone using to transfer their WMO in the cold weather? The pump I have (that came with my used burner) worked ok in the warmer weather, but when it gets below freezing my transfer rate is way less than 1 gpm. It is a "gear mesh" style pump.

I'm thinking an air operated diaphragm pump, like the link below would do the trick. This is about the cheapest one I found, it is rated for 12gpm, but I would be happy for 2 or 3 when it's below freezing.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200623841_200623841

I think I've got the burner figured out (fingers crossed), this morning makes my first 24 hours without having to go reset it, so it's time to invest some money into transferring the oil.

olscout99

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 10:42:47 am »
That looks like a good pump for what you want to do, and that is a great price compared to what I have seen for those type pumps. I have one similar to this, only because I got a steal of a deal on it on Ebay.  It works great but is noisy. I plumbed it with a spin on filter adaptor on the outlet so the oil is somewhat filtered as I pump from one tank to the next. My 'burner' tank is a 120 gallon aluminum truck saddle tank with the pump, a Goldenrod water block filter, and pressure regulators mounted on top, so the oil is filtered before it gets to the burner also. I think the water block is around 17 microns, so the oil going to the gun should be pretty clean which hopefully results in a better burn and less clean up. I'd say go for that deal, you probably won't get that GPM in cold weather but it will still move oil.
Link to similar pump I have- https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200685591_200685591?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Fuel%20Transfer%20%2B%20Lubrication%20%3E%20Oil%20Pumps&utm_campaign=Ingersoll%20Rand%20ARO&utm_content=60399&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInLrGrYOZ2AIVVrXACh3l2QRxEAYYBCABEgK-RfD_BwE

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 06:28:18 pm »
 I had diaphragm pump similar to the Northern pump. I never got that much volume of that pump. It also took a enormous amount of air that my compressor could not produce. I have a small Craftsman compressor. I currently have a hydraulic pump powered with a 3/4hp 1725rpm electric motor. it moves oil at around 5gpm + when it's warm and of course less when cold.

 This summer I did the small block chevy  oil pump mod to turn it into a waste oil transfer pump. My current electric motor 3/4hp 3425rpm has trouble moving the oil in cold weather. I need to find a bigger motor.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkBIYcT6j8U



« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 06:31:37 pm by doug »
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http://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=102.0

olscout99

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 07:48:45 pm »
I have one of the modified small block Chevy oil pumps, but it's messy and I never got around to properly mounting it. I think if you had a slower motor of less HP you'd be better off. I have run mine with a half inch drill many times, and although it's tough on the drill it does work. I bet a good 1/2 hp motor at 1725 rpm would turn it alright. Cold oil is always going to be tough to pump no matter how you do it.

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 08:43:25 pm »
 I was thinking a slower motor 1725rpm like you suggested would be better. I still think it needs more power maybe 1hp. As it is now it will really pulls the motor down to where the motor stalls. The pump is a high volume with 3/4" fitting welded to the pump with 1" suction and discharge hoses. This was built to move large quantizes of 100gal +. Not sure a drill would stand up to that.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:09:45 am by doug »
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http://wasteoilheaterforum.com/index.php?topic=102.0

ShopSpecialties

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 09:15:32 pm »
Air diaphragm pump is the best for moving cold oil but they do require a large volume of air to operate. For electric motors I would go down to 1140 RPM for cold oil. 

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 12:55:35 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion. Does a lower rpm motor of the same hp have more torque?
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ShopSpecialties

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 01:01:28 am »
Thanks for the suggestion. Does a lower rpm motor of the same hp have more torque?

Good question and I am not sure if it does have more torque.

olscout99

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 10:40:15 am »
That is a good question, it seems like maybe it does because most of the high torque applications like pumps and larger air compressors are driven by slower RPM motors. Maybe because it takes less starting current to start lower rpms? 

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 01:34:16 pm »
3450rpm is asking a lot for that sbc pump. Slowing down the rpm the motor may not need as much the horse power. If that makes any since.
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Russ

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2017, 10:43:18 am »
Yes, that is an interesting question.  Wanting to know more about the subject myself, I did a little digging around.

I'm no expert in this area, but if I understand the chart on this page:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motors-hp-torque-rpm-d_1503.html

It does look like a motor of the same HP, turning slower, will have more torque.

acarter

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2017, 12:55:29 pm »
I just ordered the diaphragm pump from northern tool. I'll post back once I see how it works...

Austin

doug

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2017, 01:42:01 pm »
Russ, Thanks for the chart. if I'm reading the chart right I believe a lower rpm should have more torque. Who knew.
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acarter

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2018, 06:28:26 pm »
Well, I used the new diaphragm pump for the first time yesterday. Much better than the old gear mesh pump. Oil and air temp was around 20 degrees F, pumping through a screen filter and hydraulic filter I probably get about 2gpm, unrestricted (no filter) probably closer to 5gpm. I'm happy with that, in the warm weather I'm sure it will get close to the rated 12gpm...

Austin

Oilburner

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Re: Transfer Pumps?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2018, 06:48:29 am »
For a long time now I have been Using Small Block Chev oil pumps I modify like I have yet to see anyone else do.
Most people seem to use at least one of the small ports as the Pumps come. This to me is highly restrictive and basicaly a waste of their potential in this application.
I block off both the original inlet and outlet of the pumps and bore a hole to take a 1" pipe fitting in the sides of the casings right where the gears are.

I use a 300W 24V scooter motor and can get 80l min on warm oil and have yet to find anything I can't pump that is still at least semi solid.
With no insult intended, I'd go freaking nuts hanging round pumping at 2gpm and a lot higher.  I can get 12GPM ( 50L) running the motors on half power, 12V.

This is a demo vid I did ages back of an early pump in action. I improved a bit on it since
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o52BYTEau4

This vid explains the pumps construction a bit more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkBIYcT6j8U

I have yet to find a pump other than one powered by a petrol 5 Hp engine that will keep up with these.  I did have one running off a battery lawnmower motor for a while and that was a ball tearer.  They are good up to about 3000 RPM but you do need around 500W+ depending on the oil you are pumping to get them to that. Just because the motor is XXXX rated, don't expect it to be doing that under load!

The performance on thick oil is also very good, about as good as one could get I believe.  If you can draw the semi solid fats into a hose, these things will do it and spit it out the other end.
I have a couple I use at home with AC motors. one is 1/3HP and the other is 1HP, both 2800Rpm motors.  They work really well and move oil fast. I use these for transfering  up to multi 1000L of oil at a time in IBC's and have pumped at least 60K L with these different pumps over the years.

The only problems I have had with the things is the occasional Blockage when I have sucked up cloth Napkins which Jam the gears. Most times I can simply wind the pump back by hand ( with great effort) and  once free reverse the motor and blow out whats left. Few times I have had them wrap round the gears and had to take the back cover off the pump and clear them that way.

You cannot put shutoff valves on these pumps being positive displacement and as I araldite the relief valve closed, the pumps will either stall the motor driving them ( 1 HP no problem) or the hose bursts. they have to be started and stopped with the motor.  Some people might like to put a DC PWM motor speed controller on them if they had need for lower pumping rates.

I have been doing this a while now and always looking for the holy grail with something better but yet to find anything that beats these SBC pumps modified this way that allows for their full flow capabilities.