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Author Topic: Relay help needed!  (Read 1364 times)

olscout99

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Relay help needed!
« on: December 17, 2017, 12:38:55 pm »
I will admit defeat, I am a total loser when it comes to electronics. Wiring I can do, simple stuff I can do, but reading an electronic schematic I cannot do, at least without a good chance of electrocuting myself. What I have here is a relay I need to wire up to power the 1/4 hp electric motor that runs my pump for my waste oil burner. The relay is a Potter and Brumfield KUP-14A15-120. From the detail I found on the website it has a 120 volt coil (which I can power off of my oil solenoid wires) and the contacts are rated at 1/3 hp (which is more than enough for my electric motor). The problem is, I have NO idea of what the schematic means in plain english.  I need somebody to say 'wire the two 'trigger' wires to the coil here, wire the input hot here, wire the output hot here, and your motor will run'.  Hopefully somebody here has some electronics experience and can help me out here, I ran across these and thought they might be a better choice than an
SSR for the pump motor. I have attached the wiring diagram for the relay, I realize that it's a 3 pole and I only need one, I just need to know which terminals to wire what to for that one pole. Thanks!

olscout99

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 04:38:51 pm »
Got it, I found a website that explains 'relay symbols'. A and B are the coil activators (AC, I ran wires from the primary that go to the oil solenoid),  and terminals 4 and 7 are my output. Wired it up that way, crossed my fingers, and it works. I now have a functional waste oil furnace in the shop.

Russ

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2017, 12:40:39 pm »
Good job olscout99!

I was a little confused at that diagram as well.  Reading schematics isn't my thing either!  Now that you explain it, the normally closed connections look to be 1 & 7, and the normally open 4 & 7, and so on for the other poles.  Energize A & B and now the NO 4 & 7 become closed, giving your motor power.

The heat is on!

olscout99

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 02:18:26 pm »
Russ, that's how it worked. I'm learning one step at a time, it's intimidating at first but not that bad once you get into it. I bought an entire 'working' setup, but trying to hook up everything according to the diagrams and photos the guy gave me of it was impossible. I started from scratch and did it my way, and it works, with the upside that I know what does what and how, so if I have an issue I know where to look.

Russ

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 10:29:03 pm »
Yea, good to hear!  Knowing your system is definitely good when it comes to troubleshooting.  I find that I get so excited to get things working that I forget to document what I have done, then when the next season comes around I forget how I hooked some of the stuff up.  So good documentation is valuable down the road as well.  Best of luck with your heater!

olscout99

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 10:51:31 am »
It really is pretty simple when you get down to it. I just needed to wrap my head around the whole 'PID programming', relay activating, thermostat does this instead of going to the TT terminals on the primary, etc.  It's pretty well set now I think, other than with warmer weather this week I think I'm going to move the gun to where it's sloped into the furnace instead of back out of the furnace, which should eliminate my oil drainback problems from the nozzle dripping. It also should put more heat where it needs to be, the Lanair furnace I'm using has a round burn chamber with a refractory 'wall' with a ledge on top that is about six inches tall. The flame pattern is hitting more on the 'ledge' and not so much on the flat of the wall, and some of the flame pattern is over the top of the ledge which means that heat is going pretty much right up the chimney. The fan switch is at the bottom of the burner on the end where the gun is, and I think it depends on that reflected heat off of the wall to warm up the chamber and turn on the fan, which seems to take longer and get hotter than it should, so hopefully that will solve two problems at once.

olscout99

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 01:21:29 pm »
Well, regarding my last post about moving the gun so it's sloped into the furnace rather than out of the furnace, I just finished that. Harder than it should be, one of the set screws holding the flange to the blast tube was stripped....of course, it can never be easy. Got it done, put it back together and fired it up, and what a difference! The main flame cone is now hitting the masonry target and the 'shelf' on top causes it to roll in the combustion chamber. Before a lot of the heat was going over the target wall; above the main burn chamber are three or four tubes that conduct the hot exhaust to the chimney to gain more heat. The top of the furnace would get very hot before the fan would ever kick on, and then the air output was not as warm as I thought it should be. When I cranked it back up after moving the gun, it took half the time or less for the limit to kick on the fan, and the air temperature blowing out is noticeably warmer than it was before.  All of that should translate to less on time, quicker warm up in the shop, and me being happy. The small things make a difference!

Russ

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 09:51:37 pm »
Sounds like you have it dialed in just right now.  Glad to hear it's producing some good heat and is probably much more efficient as well.  Good job!

olscout99

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2017, 02:18:52 pm »
It WAS dialed in pretty well, until Saturday when it quit working. I'm pretty sure the solid state Beckett ignitor (replaces the big heavy box coil) died on it. I cleaned the diffuser of a pretty good build up near the nozzle, which I suspect was caused by a combination of things to include not enough reflected heat at the beginning, and improper air adjustment, and also cleaned the nozzle (which was open). Put it all back together, and I'm getting oil spray on the target but no fire, so I suspect the ignitor.  Local hardware wants $$$$ for one, so I have one coming from Amazon tomorrow and we'll see then if it's the problem. I have heard people say the new type solid state ignitors are problematic, but unless I can find a smaller iron version it's what I'm stuck with due to the physical constraints of my furnace. The box for the chimney outlet is directly above the gun, and one of the large transformers either won't fit (a really really big one I have here) or will sit against the chimney outlet box (probably not optimal for long life either).  I might do some shopping to see if I can find a smaller iron version to have a spare on hand, waiting four or five days for a new one is not optimal. I have spares of most other parts excepting the ignitor, and I thought I was OK there too until I found the large iron versions I have won't fit.

ShopSpecialties

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Re: Relay help needed!
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 07:54:39 pm »
The easy way to check if the igniter is working is to lift it up while it is trying to fire. If it is good you will see the spark jump to the electrodes.