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Messages - HT32B-SX115

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Waste Motor Oil / Re: Burning heating oil in waste oil furnace
« on: May 03, 2019, 11:19:00 am »
How long does it roughly take ethanol to gel up like that?

This is pretty much off topic but ethanol doesn't "gel up " anywhere.   One of the main problems with ethanol in automotive gasoline is that in an engine that sits for months at a time, the gasoline component will evaporate and leave the ethanol behind which evaporates slower since it's less volatile.  If there is also some water in the fuel when this happens, the ethanol/water mix evaporates even slower .

however, i dont know much about ethanol and if it should or should not be in heating oil.
Rest assured that there will never be ethanol in heating oil.......UNLESS, someone pours gasoline in your heating oil that contains ethanol! (E10, E15 , E85 etc)

If you suspect gasoline in ANY oil that you want to plan to use in a waste oil furnace,   I wouldn't use it.   

The explosion hazard is too great with any fuel that produces an ignitable vapor.

Waste Motor Oil / Re: Burning heating oil in waste oil furnace
« on: April 05, 2019, 05:06:48 pm »

According to Cleanburn,
Fuels   Used oils: Crankcase,ATF, hydraulic
Fuel oils: #2, #4, and #5 fuel oil

Since "heating oil" is usually #2 fuel oil, you can burn it with no problems as long as it's "clean"

I am not sure how one gets heating oil with "ethanol" in it.   Ethanol is not a component of heating oil nor is it "thick" ........ By the way, if you have ever had Everclear, it is over 90% ethanol.   It's not very thick!

If you really do have ethanol in it, it's likely from someone pouring gasoline (E10 specifically)  in the tank. 

If that's the case, I wouldn't run it at all.   

Gasoline old or new is far too dangerous to run in any waste oil furnace.

If you have really "thick" oil in the bottom of the tank, it's probably mostly sludge, which could be nearly any solid/semi solid contaminant(s) mixed with water.

If the tank does indeed contain old heating oil, I would pour off the actual heating oil and further strain it, and completely avoid the "sludge" at  the bottom.

Then you could mix the heating oil with your other oil



Waste Motor Oil / Re: Collecting/Transporting Drain oil
« on: March 21, 2019, 01:08:24 pm »

None of these burners take a liquid to a gas. They atomize with pressure or air. I do have a vaporizer,  a different set of rules.

Flue up and out as quickly as possible is good.
True statement!  Waste oil is so full of contaminants that it produces a LOT of ash that must be cleaned out periodically. 

There is no way you can use the same techniques that is used in +90 gas/propane furnaces.

Waste Motor Oil / Re: Collecting/Transporting Drain oil
« on: March 20, 2019, 04:16:17 pm »
1500 gal is almost 6000L.
I never cease to be amazed at how much fuel some people go through.

To put it in other terms, if you conservatively say that oil has 10.5 Kw/ L, burning 6000L yields an energy output of 63000Kw.
Have you thought about closing your doors in winter??  :0)

How long is your winter?
I'd love to work out how much KW worth of heat you are going through a day!

I calculated oil at about 11.2 kw/L (using 145,000 BTU/gallon  and 3.785L/gal)


I know this is a fairly old topic but it's relevant to continue it and expand a little on Oilburners excellent points above!!

The engineer in me wanted to go further!!   and I'm bored today!!

From the Engineering Toolbox

#2 heating oil (#2 diesel)   contains around 140,000 BTU per gallon.

#6 fuel oil (Bunker-C fuel oil) contains around 155,000 BTU per gallon

Waste motor oils would produce more BTU per gallon (over diesel/#2 heating oils etc)  if burned efficiently because of the slightly higher carbon (soot) content but probably not more than #6 / Bunker-C oils. I think we would be lucky to get more than 145,000 btu from any automotive waste oils.

So we can probably safely assume that that waste motor oils produce should produce somewhere around 145,000 BTU/gal. (although that STILL might be a bit optimistic)

The the most efficient waste oil burning furnaces probably do not exceed 50% and even that might be a stretch. (any one here have actual data?) 

Early gas furnaces (1960's -70's) were typically rated at 60% and later power vent furnaces were called 80 percenters but still vented HOT exhaust through standard "B-vent" producing exhaust temps that would burn your hand if held there.

High  efficiency condensing natural gas and propane furnaces have secondary heat exchangers and exhaust blowers producing efficiencies of up to  94% and vent thru PVC plastic.  You can actually hold your hand over the exhaust and it's only "luke" warm!

You cannot hold your hand over any waste oil furnace exhaust....... a HUGE percentage of the heat (read BTU's) produced  are lost up the stack!

My airplane hanger is roughly 2500 sq ft, has a 14ft ceiling and is insulated with R-21 (6" walls) and R-38 in the ceiling.

The rear door is a 12x12 insulated commercial "roll-up" and the main door is 44' wide x 14' high and  4" thick and insulated using 4" of rigid foam.

I do have some gaps on each side of the main door, about 1" on top and  bottom and about 1" each side.

The only "leaks" I have are the main door which I am planning to seal up this summer.

Even so, with my 140,000 BTU/hr (rated INPUT)  Lanair HL-140 (it burns about 1 gal/hr) I can bring the building to about 65F from 38F in about 2-3 hrs....but it doesn't get much higher than that.

If I'm out there for 8 hrs, I really need to run it all day.   So I could essentially burn 8 gallons per day, 7 days per week if I am out there every day (which I am not)

But lets say I'm out there 5 times per week.  That could be 40 gallons per week,  and 160 gallons per month.   

Over a typical 7month period I could burn around 1120 gallons.  This is with outside temps that are never below about 10F and in most cases, not even below freezing.

Now understand,  I believe I have a fair amount of heat loss through the gaps L&R, top & bottom of my main door that if plugged, would probably cut my fuel burn in half because the T-stat would shut down the furnace (that doesn't happen right now)

I also think it is probably hard to compare to an electric furnace because these furnaces are rated at BTU INPUT

Electric furnaces are rated at KW (but can easily be converted to BTU input).  Just about ALL the "input" is converted to heat!! (all the air passing the electric resistance coils is heated by the hot coils................. where heat exchanger (natural gas/propane or oil)  type furnaces exhaust up the stack 5-50% of the heat that goes IN!!)

Comparing an electric furnace.

A 20KW electric furnace would compare favorably to my (assumed 50% efficient)  HL-140.  20kw converted to BTU is in round numbers is about 68,000 BTU  (20kw = 68,242 btu)

But to get that 68242 btu from an oil furnace (at 50% efficiency) you have to burn twice that amount of oil (in BTU)   or 136484  which is around 1 gallon (actually a little less if we assume 145,000 btu/gal oil )

Electric rates where I live in the PNW is about 10c per KWH (9c for the first 400kwh and 10.9c for the next 600)

Running a 20KW furnace 8 hr would essentially be 160 Kwh per day,   ( using $0.10 to make it easy,    $16/day or $480 per month JUST TO RUN the furnace!!)

$3360 over that same 7 month period.

Understand my wife stopped asking what  time it is.............she doesn't want to know how to build a clock!!!  ::)  ::)

Somebody please check my math!!!    I always make mistakes!!



Waste Motor Oil / Re: Types of oil
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:02:05 pm »
Try to blend but be aware of stratification in the tank.
that could be a problem if there was no mixing but don't most (or all) commercial waste oil burners recirculate some of the oil pumped to the burner back to the supply tank?

My Lanair when operating,  appears to return more than 50%% of the oil pumped to the low pressure regulator back to the tank resulting in constant mixing 

Waste Motor Oil / Re: Types of oil
« on: March 08, 2019, 04:20:03 pm »

Welcome aboard!

What sort of oil "furnace" are you burning this oil in? (Pictures and model ?)

I have a Lanair HL-140 ( similar to the following!  )  in stock form and I haven't had any problem getting various oils to ignite.  I do allow both cartridge heaters to fully warm up (takes about 5-7 min or so)
Most of the oil I burn is from diesels but I recently I'm running 40-50wt aviation oil at about 25-50%

In my 200 gallon tank when it was about 85% full, I did dump in about 20 gallons of diesel but I have ran it on "straight" for several years.  I like putting a little diesel or Kerosene once in a while to offset the little bit of 90wt oil I occasionally get.

I have noticed that a burner like the Lanair, is very sensitive to igniter position with relation to the nozzle and temp of the oil "block"

Also, if the cartridge heaters are not hot enough, it won't reliably light.



Waste Motor Oil / Re: Waste oil spill... What a mess!
« on: February 13, 2019, 07:25:24 pm »

If your plastic tank is HDPE or LDPE,  no epoxy will reliably stay “stuck”to it.
There are other plastics that don’t play well with any epoxy too

Commercial Waste Oil Heaters / Lanair HL-140 Furnace
« on: February 02, 2019, 08:37:57 pm »
Howdy all!

New member here to get some action going!

I have a Lanair HL-140 that I have been operating for about 10 years or so.  Anyone out there in "Radio-Land" using any of the Lanair Waste oil furnaces?

Hope you all are warm!



Welcome Center / Re: New user from the PNW
« on: February 01, 2019, 03:40:17 pm »
Hi Russ,


I do have some experience getting these things to operate....Even the Lanair Cust Support people were surprised I was able to get a CA-100 working properly and keep it going!   (It's really not rocket-science though!)

I am lucky to have a fairly stable supply of oil from my neighbors (I actually live on a residential airpark) who like changing their own oil in their vehicles, tractors/lawn equipment, boats and airplanes! 

I discourage people from bringing me the oil though.....I really don't want anyone "dropping" oil containers at my hanger!(what a mess that would make huh?)

 I actually have a John Deere Gator and I  drag a little 4x8 trailer around the neighborhood with a 30gal drum in the back.  Keeps me in good graces with the neighbors and gives them an easy way to get rid their used oil, and I do all the pouring!

We're not getting all that much cold weather here in the PNW this year (although temps in the teens are forecast next week)

I usually don't burn more than about 100-150 gallons per year.  Now that I have retired, I'll probably be spending more time out in the hanger and will probably have to scrounge more oil.  (one of my neighbors had a local heavy equipment business and has offered his used oil for me to come and get anytime I want it.  So we'll see how that goes!  He probably produces another 200-300 gallons per year......

I did see a thread here someplace where people were talking about oil transfer pumps.  I am using an ARO air powered pump I bought on eBay a couple of years ago.  I think it was about $180 used and was in pretty good shape.  There are some problems with certain pumps though because of the material they use for the diaphragms and check balls.  For example, Santoprene swells when exposed to certain liquids (like oil!!)

Anyway, I hope there's a lot of people that would like to discuss Lanair and other type compressed-air atomization burners.

Welcome Center / New user from the PNW
« on: January 30, 2019, 11:24:47 pm »
Howdy all from the great Upper Left Coast!

I've been burning waste oil for more than 20 years, starting out with a Lanair CA-100 acquired, rebuilt and operated for about 3 or 4 years.  I stored it for another 5 years and sold it about 10 years ago when I  found a fairly nice condition Lanair HL-140 on Craigslist which I still have and operate every winter in my aircraft hanger.

I have a lot of experience running this one and would love to talk to others with Lanair (or similar)  furnaces to compare notes!

Stay warm!


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