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Messages - Oilburner

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1
Welcome Center / Re: Hey from Oz
« on: June 15, 2017, 06:17:37 pm »

I think any burner is controlable with the right mix and amounts of air and fuel.
The blue burners to me appear to be putting a lot of excess air over the top of the combustion which may be the short flame.

I have been wanting to look how to do these confined flames for a long time. I'd like to build a Turbo Jet engine but I know I have to confine the flame front or Ill just melt the Turbine blades in no time. They need to run on hot gas not flame.
There are some guys that have made combustors that run on Diesel which should work the same for oil. They tend to create a pocket of air that suspends the flame and the fuel is added into the centre of the combustor and never  touches the sides therefore keeping the metal cool and the air always over supplied. A burner nozzle pumped by a power steering pump may do the job of sufficient atomisation. Another project to add onto the list of the 100 years worth I have already.

You wouldn't have understood the Chinglish instructions for the burner even if they had been at all helpful.  Guess we in the west expect that but it's a way for the Chinese to save those ever precious cents.
I have always had good luck with industrial Chinese stuff. Added some toys to the collection today. An 8 HP electric start Diesel engine, an 8 HP petrol Fire Pump, a 92CC Chainsaw and a Demolition Hammer.
Bought the chainsaw at the recommendation of a friend that has to of them and does a lot of very heavy work.  with them. So far the engine seems great but has issues with the bar and chain. Think might be transport Damage. The engine fires up easy and has loads of power.  Spose one has to be prepared for these things. I paid $125 for the thing. The Stihl is is cloned after is over $1000.  i'm confident once I get the bar issue sorted the thing will be great.

This will be my 3rd or 4th Diesel and a mate had a water pump and swore by it. I have also bought Chinese Logsplitter, wood chipper, brushcutter and pole saw and all have been great. I think a lot of over patriotic rednecks put the chinese stuff down through ignorance. Sure, some stuff is crap but all the things I have bought I couldn't complain about. My father is brand centric  and the first time I had something Chinese delivered to him he scoffed at it and wondered how long before he had to go buy a Honda. That was about 3 years ago and now his opinion is he wouldn't buy Honda again for what he can get the chinese stuff for that has already well and truly paid for itself and hasn't given any trouble either.
Can't say that for some of the ext Honda equipment he has bought which rubs salt into the wound.

One of his Honda pumps is playing up and I bought him a new Chinese coil for it the other week.  Don't know if he's tried it yet but just in case it doesn't fix the thing I bought the other pump for him and then I'll get him a Chinese carby for the Honda and see how that goes.
Honda coil was $160?  Chinese knockoff, $17 delivered.  Chinese pump I bought today, $123.



2
Welcome Center / Re: Hey from Oz
« on: June 10, 2017, 08:02:40 pm »
When it comes to creativity in oil burners, those ruskies and assorted baltics sure do take the prize!
I spose when it comes to trying not to freeze to death and having to use whatever you can get hold of with little available funds, ingenuity kicks in pretty well.  :0)

I have seen similar blue flame Vids before. Something I have never been able to achieve so far although I can't say it's ever been a goal either.
it looks to me like they are heating the oil just enough to boil  or evaporate off the volotiles and mix them with the incoming air to create the blue flame.  I notice as you said they all seem to have a pool of oil at the bottom with  a reserve of oil on the outside of the tank.  It would seem to me that they are in fact " Cracking" or pyrolising the oil and burning it in situ.
I think with this type of setup may well be able to get a similar result from wood chips or other solid fuels.

I also wonder if there is much ash or buildup left as a result of burning the oil this way and the oil pool itself seems quite cool and wouldn't burn the carbon deposts to ash and exhaust them.

I designed my first downdraft type burners the same way.  I had a tube going down into an extinguisher bottle with the end blocked off and the air exiting though holes drilled in the sides.  If I remember correctly the first tests had the oil being blown in with the air. This was a failure because the turbulence of the air tended to blow smoking hot but incomplete combusted droplets of oil out everywhere.

 The 2nd approach was to put the oil in the bottom of the bottle and let the connected heat  phase change it to gas.  this worked but I felt the thin gauge of the steel in the extinguishers was not transferring heat fast enough to the oil and I could never get the sort of output I wanted from the amount of air supplied.

I'm not sure where this was different from the burners in the vids.  I'm thinking that perhaps the pooled oil in their burners is not lying on the bottom of the vessel but rather in a smaller vessel sitting within.
I'm also thinking that perhaps the air pipe has a higher clearance than mine did.

In the end I pretty much abandoned this air pipe design. Unlike what I initially expected, I found I could aim the air stream straight down into the oil and it burnt quite well and I could blow the fuel in with the air and get a strong, clean output.  As it's a lot easier to throw a bent bit of pipe into a metal container than have to weld and drill holes in it, I went the easiest way out.

I have researched the Blue/ yellow flame thing and everything I have read says a blue flame is not hotter at all, it's just the way the carbon atoms are being handled. All the papers seem to agree on this and I have not seen any commercial burners that do a blue flame. I surmise when they are all talking about efficiency and emissions, if there were a benefit to a blue over a yellow flame, that's what we'd see commercial burners like yours doing especially the western made ones where efficiency is a big selling point.

Nothing I have read suggests that a blue flame is hotter or cleaner, rather just a more attractive flame.
I would like to know how to construct a blue flame burner as I'm sure it would increase my understanding of combustion and may allow me to develop the method to different applications in a more workable way than what I'm doing now.   

3
Welcome Center / Re: Hey from Oz
« on: June 07, 2017, 02:51:44 am »

The thing certainly looks the part. With a rating of up to 50 Kw you should never be cold either!

I'm not sure about the thermal mass. No doubt it would store the heat but I'm trying to do the mental arithmetic of how that heat would transfer back to the water/ tank.  I'm big on thermal mass. I had a Pizza oven I built that weighed over a ton.  Took a bit of heating up but once it was you could cook pizzas that night and give it a swab out the next day and do bread.

I guess there is no harm in trying the disks... or bricks. Only thing I can think of is you will want the flame impinging pretty direct for max heating.  Maybe the mindset would be to heat the thermal mass and use the exhaust to heat the water. That way the mass might be working most effectively.

For your fire box perhaps the steel shell with a lining of Kaowool and then the firebricks would work well.
You could also insulate the outside of the thing with either regular roof insulation or Hebel panel/ aerated cement.
I did the casing of my pizza oven with that. It has a great insulating value but you cannot expose it to naked flame.
On the outside of the box it may give it bit of a finished look and provide an additional structure as well.
You can get the stuff anywhere and its easy to cut, just have to go through the steel reo in the centre but you can do that with a cutting disk on a circular saw.

Are you plumbing this up as an additional burner HE to your existing House system rather than convert the LPG burner?
It would seem to me that Converting a Gas spa burner would be the way to go. All you would have to do is remove the gas burner and cut a hole for the oil burner.  The heat exchangers are efficient on those and all the manufacturing would be done.  The spa heater I have is 100KW so would easy handle the burner you have.

This would be the sort of thing you'd be  after:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hurlcon-HX-120-Gas-Spa-Pool-Heater-/122533602591?hash=item1c8792651f:g:7xIAAOSwcgNZNQ9b

For extra efficiency, you could sit the tank ( maybe on a frame) on top of the spa heater where the flue normally goes and draft the burner through them both. Preheat the water in the tank then plum it through the spa heater then out to the house.

Whatever you come up with I'd be very interested to see some pics and what you end up doing.

As for the log burner, you can downscale oil burners to any size. I have had a lot of people ask me about them and I have nutted a couple out but they don't make for very exciting Videos and the couple I did got lousy Views so I stick to giving the viewers what they want which is impractical big fires.

Depending on your internal clearance etc, all you have to do is what many with converting wood heaters do is blow air and oil into a pot and burn it that way. I did it with the grannys chamber pot Vid and some others. You could have something like a 1" pipe blowing into a little pot or trough with a small oil drip. You can go as low as you want, you just have to proportion the air and fuel accordingly. Too much of either and you ont have enough heat to sustain burning which is where most people go wrong. Also the smaller you get the less margin for error so it can take a bit of learning to get the air/ fuel tune right.

4
Welcome Center / Re: Hey from Oz
« on: June 06, 2017, 10:07:15 am »

 I'd rather buy (read already bought) a Chinese waste oil burner. Cost me just over $1K, which may seem like a lot, but to me, it is pretty much exactly the amount that I spend on electricity each month running our heat pumps.

Do you have a link to the burner you bought? Have you run it yet and if so, how is it going?

Quote
I'd like to hear how the spa heater works out. We have a pool/spa but it barely gets used - much too cold here most of the year, so yeah, definitely interested to see what you are planning.

I have only played with it so far as I'm moving house in 4 weeks and didn't want to connect it to the pool.  I have been running veg oil in my vehicles 15 years this October and looking for a way to heat the pool was the original reason I got into this oily caper. Done a lot with it but still haven't heated the pool with it and the new place doesn't have one although we are planning on putting in a sunken spa outside.

All I have done is remove the gas burner and put in an oil burner made from a LPG bottle. There are a couple of vids of it on my channel but it's nothing special. Normal side entry, blown in fuel job.  The spa heater is rated at 100KW. At first I thought I can easy double that without thinking about it but a mate that works with these things warned me not to go over the rating. If the water boils in the exchanger tubes there can be all sorts of problems so I'll back the thing off to 90 Kw to be on the safe side for the spa if I use it for that or down to about 30 for the house and just have it cycling.

For a spa it would be an easy setup. Just fire the thing till the water is hot enough and then I imagine you could shut it down as the water should stay warm a good while or just have the thing idling.
Starting off with a spa heater and converting is easy as you have the cabinet, refractory blocks and a good Heat exhanger to work with from the start. All you have to do is make sure you have ample water flow through the HE itself and don't over drive the thing or have flame touching the tubes.

I also have a 200KW set of tubes but no cabinet I can use as well. Probably use the small unit for the house and the larger one for the spa although that said, I always thought of using my pool for a huge thermal mass so I could fire up one or 2 days a week and then just circulate the water through the house. A spa would be much better than a pool for heat loss but still provide a good thermal mass. 

Quote

As for solar, our HWS has those vac solar tubes with elec boost. The solar works well during summer, we can switch the boost off but in winter it only gets luke warm so I'm interested to see what you have planned. Please make vids if you go ahead.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that. I was under the impression those Vac tubes worked really well all year round and any sun falling on them heated the water. Guess not.
I have been touting going with used PV panels on other forums and been endlessly told that the Tubes are more efficent. I don't  doubt that ( although there are clearly proviso's) but my position is that's its far cheaper and easier for me to buy used PV, they are much easier to wire up than plumb up ( putting them on the shed up the back is no trouble where running hot water up there would be expensive and inefficient) and once the water is heated which could be quite early in the day given a big enough array, I can have the heater itself switch the power elsewhere through a dual thermostat.
With water heaters the tank can be up to temp fairly early on and then they just boil the water off or whatever they do.

Your info bout the tubes not working so well in winter is another plus for the PV heating.  Electric panels work better in cool weather than hot so will be in their element when you want them the most for this job.  I plan to over drive the element a bit on voltage so I have full power  early and later in the afternoon when the light levels drop.  haven't quite figured how I'm going to do them yet.  Easiest option would be to run an array of about 300V max straight to the heater.
 I can also use a PWM controller to regulate the output or as I have done when playing and learning, run a bunch of panels in parallel and put the power through an inverter to step it up and PWM the output (2Kw) from there.
Think I'll try the direct 300V array first and see how that goes as it's going to be the simplest and I think have reasonable efficiency.

 
Quote
I have a good friend who has an Ultratune workshop. They need to dispose of about 600L of oil each month and I can have it all if I wish.  I might buy an IBC and a pump, and pump it instead of handling heavy drums.

Sounds perfect. Stockpile what you want to get you through. If you can get 600L a month, 2 Ibc's should be fine as you'll get another 6 weeks supply or so over the winter anyway.

I gave up on veg oil tins a LONG time ago. I just ( still) use the Chev oil pump I made and pump from drums into a 200L drum in the back of the wagon. As it's on a DC motor, when I get home I reverse the polarity and pump it out again into a convenient holding drum.  The pump is hard plumbed to the collection drum so when it's empty, I just pull the thing out and sit it in in the driveway till the next run. I have about 5M of hose on it and have been running the thing from one of those  lithium Jumper starter packs for the last 2 years. They fit in your pocket and weigh nothing but the one I have has enough juice for at least 600L of oil in and out again.
 Before that I just got a used battery from the wreckers although no reason you couldn't put in some wiring from the vehicle battery.

Quote
I also plan to build a fan forced heater for my workshop.  Anyway, plan is to build it like you show on your vids, but then to put a 44 gal drum over it with a fan installed on top and holes or slots in the front of the drum.

This is also something I have planned. The drum over the top of the bottle is a good Idea. I was thinking of using an old car LPG tank to get more surface area. I also want to run the flue at an angle along the wall as far as possible and maybe have a fan blowing along that as there is a lot of heat in the exhaust gasses and most people seem to just duct that heat away as soon as possible which makes no sense to me.

The other option is to convert a wood burning heater. I'd actually prefer that so I could see the flames. I want to make the shed bit of a man cave as well and make a nice area for my Lister engine and other generators. See how I go. I was going to double the size of the garage but then a friend worked out that would require the excavation of 100 tons or more of soil as the block has a slope. I'm thinking now I might cut and backfill at the centre point of the rear shed to step it up from the existing floor and put a ramp in to get up there. Also Looking at going 4.8M high at the back and putting in a mezzanine. If I do that the spa heater with plumbed radiators may be better for spreading the heat around.

Of course then there is the thing of doing a co gen setup with the lister which is another ambition. Run the thing to generate and backfeed power and use the heat from the coolant to heat the shed. At 4KW, wouldn't be a bad output and  I could also extract some heat from the exhaust although consensus seems to be there isn't a great deal to be gained on that front.  Guess I can always test for myself. 

More than one way to heat with oil!  :0)

5
Welcome Center / Re: Hey from Oz
« on: June 06, 2017, 03:56:10 am »

Got a few Vids on my YT channel for making burners and also modifying gas water heaters.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEfdKGemqGDvpn2hSuJl2Nw?view_as=public

I did just as you said, took out the gas burner and put in a self made oil burner. Very easy and you can knock up a burner in less than an hour... if that.  The trick is control. Recently I have been playing with different pumps from fleabay for that along with PWM controllers for the blower and the oil feed pump.  I'm liking pumps because unlike gravity feed, the supply is constant and does not change with tank level, oil warming up or cooling off etc. You set the output and that's it.

For your application you could incorporate some temp sensors and use a Dump load. Put a thermostat on the return water and if it hits a certain temp, a fan comes on  for a radiator and just dumps the the heat or maybe heats another area like a garage where the washing is or could even go to a thermal mass like another tank to store the heat so the burner can be switched off but the water circulated and supply heat.

You have to be a bit creative with this and work out what you want and also work to your skills and abilities. A lot of people want turnkey solutions but that costs a bomb as you have seen. To get the benefit of cost you have to invest your time and effort.   I'm looking at using arduino micro controllers for regulation but I have a lot to learn about them yet.  A dump load may not be the most efficient way to go but it may be simple and allow you to heat with oil where a more sophisticated system would be out of your grasp.

 I'm setting up a spa heater for home heating. Again just removed the gas burner and replaced it with an oil burner.
For the time being I'll open the window if it gets too warm inside. Should be nice to have the window open in winter and fresh air going through.  :0)

I'm going to use a caravan type water pump and probably stage the thing so it's idle or heat. I'm thinking one PWM controller running constantly for idle and another on a thermostat for heating when the temp drops.  When it hits preset, the thing will drop back. I'll have the thermostat on a relay so it just supplies the higher voltage over the top of the other PWM controller.  I'll have to tune the air supply a bit and probably use a 12V Bilge blower so I can control both the air and fuel together. Other alternative may be something like a car throttle body on a solenoid with a hole in the thing so it supplies air when the thing is it idle and then opens to admit the full/ tuned airflow when heat is required.

I'm also looking for a 400L hot water system to use as an extra tank.  I am in 2 minds about this. I may set up as a solar powered pre heater that feeds into the main tank therefore reducing the off peak power requirement or heating up fully and eliminating it.  Other option is to have an oil fired heater.  I'll set that up on a simple shutdown  where I fire the thing up and then one of 2 thermostats running in series hit temp the thing simply cuts the oil supply then a few minutes later the fan.  I'll use 2 thermos so they both have to be closed for the thing to run. If one fails the other will sense temp and shut down.  May even use a 3rd as a master cutout on a non latching relay.  Even if everything failed, the worst that can happen is the heaters expansion valve will blow off and the incoming water will cool everything down till it cycles again.

I may even go for both options being a summer and winter alternative. Summer should give loads of solar powered hot water and winter would be the oil fired.

One thing I'd make you aware of is your oil supply.  Do you have one and is it big enough to meet your needs?
IF you burn 2L of oil an hour which would be pretty much a minimum for what I believe you'll need where you are even 12 hours a day that's 24L. x7  plus a bit extra for rounding is 150L a week MINIMUM.  I'd be wanting a supply of 200L a week myself.  You can store it, you'd probably want 3-4000L per winter so have you the Supply per week/ month or the space for at least 3 IBC's?  The rest you might be able to make up over the winter however be aware that a lot less people go out in winter so if you want to use veg oil, the restaurants don't produce as nearly as much in winter as they do summer.  In Sydney, it's way less oil.


I favor Veg oil and if tht is your choice, would recommend you process in summer although you'll have to watch the fats in winter. You may need to add some Diesel/ turps/ kero to help keep it thin  depending on the temp and the oil you get.  You'll want to strain it at least through some fabric to get out the crumb size particles and dead rodents etc. Dosen't have to be super clean like engine fuel but it has to have anything that can build up and cause blockages removed.
The best way to deal with oil is do nothing.  Put it in a drum or IBC and the longer you do nothing with it the less you'll have to do to it when you do want to use it.  Gravity will take 95% of the crap to the bottom of the container, you pump off and strain the rest into your Clean tank and you are ready to go. If you have the space and supply I'd say be stocking up as early in spring as you can for the winter ahead. I try to do that with the oil I run my Vehicle on and I can usualy get enough put away so I don't have to do any collection or filtering in the cold months and just run off reserves.  When things warm up and the oil is plentiful again I stock up.

 You can use engine oil but again, you'll probably want to strain that as well. I used some the other day that came from my Brother in laws Battle ship of a cruiser. It was taken straight from the engines into a clean tin. it sat for a year and when I went to use it there was thick sludge like gloop on the bottom.  The stuff seems to congeal somewhat no matter how clean and sealed it is and this would cause problems.  You'd at least want to have settling tanks and pump from the top down to get the good liquid from the thick sump gunk.

If you haven't sourced your fuel, I'd implore you to do that before going any further.  Some people like myself can get more oil than they can use, others say they can't get any. In reality I think more depends more on the person than the location.  Some people are afraid to ask and have all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas on things and others like myself have plenty of front and are not afraid to approach people  or take whats sitting around largely being a nuisance.

There are a lot of different ways to design and control a heater so get an idea of the physical dimensions and output of what you need and an idea of how you are going to set it up. As a rule of thumb, 1 L of oil is good for 10 KW of heat output. you can look at your gas heater and get an idea of what it's doing, ( may have to use an online converter to change BTU or Joules into KW or whatever you want to work with) and then you'll know the size of the system you are wanting to do and have an idea of fuel flows, consumption and air/ blower requirements.
From there you can build the thing with an idea of size and control.
You will NOT get away with some simple drip feed unless you don't mind attending to the thing every 30 min.  I'd strongly recommend a pumped system because it's the most consistent and reliable.

6
Having built a few (!!) drip burners I would say with certainty that heating the air ( or fuel) is not going to make any worthwhile difference to the way the thing burns except for a possible brief period on startup.

The burner should run with an internal temp of over 1000o C. Heating the air even 2-300o is going to do nothing for the oil that is burning from well under 300. There is such an excess of heat in the burner while it's operating and the things will run so far above the boiling temp of the oil, any preheated air ( or fuel) is a moot point.
The other thing may be that you are taking heat from the burner which will be pumped out the flue instead of into the room.

Yesterday I found some motivation and a rush of blood to the head and came up with a new and very simple original design for a burner. I was going to go with another setup but I like to keep my designs as simple as possible which also makes them easy to fabricate.
 It's a horizontal design ( not that it matters which way you turn it) and the air tube runs the length of the burner.  The air tube presently seals against the end of the extinguisher bottle internally and I cut a notch for the air to escape directed at the bottom of the bottle. The fuel has to be heated and vaporised and come into contact with hot metal to do so. The idea of the burner was that the air and fuel would travel to the far end of the burner with the tube passing through the flame front and vaporising the fuel in the regenerative cycle needed to change its state from a liquid to a gas as needed.

I did stand there looking at the thing before I welded it up trying to run simulations of the thing running to work out where the flame front  would travel and the path it would take and if the in rushing air  would cool the central pipe too much to allow vaporisation of the oil or whether it didn't matter and it would burn in the chamber section anyway.
After much head scratching and subsequent splinter removal from my fingers, I wasn't sure what would happen but I was pretty sure that it would happen. As the design is so damn simple anyway,  I pulled out the plasma cutter, cut the extinguisher bottle with a slot and the hole for the inlet needed, tacked it up with the MIG and gave teh thing a run.

Wow! Talk about easy to light. I get a perverted satisfaction when I dream something up, cobble it together and the thing exceeds my hopes and expectations. I could hear the veg oil I was using was a bit wet by the crackling which is always hugely detrimental to easy startups even if it makes little difference to running but the thing was taking off faster than I would have expected.

I ran it a good while with errant flames happily coming out where the thing wasn't sealed and it worked like a charm. I ran it up to full power on the castle blower and with the PWM speed controller ran it low as well. Didn't matter, didn't care, whatever output you want. That's why I love drip burners. You can go from a candle to an inferno all with the same setup.

The biggest surprise was confirmation I thought I saw when it was running but confirmed when I shut it down.  I turned off the fuel, waited till the flame lessened and turned off the blower. Sure enough, I could then see the air inlet tube still glowing quite well.
I wouldn't have thought it would get that hot with the amount of air going through it but I was satisfied that my design theory worked much better than I expected and was sound.  I wasn't so much trying to preheat the air but rather get the fuel to boiling point which it does soooo easily.

As far as your air preheat goes, I would suggest thinking about going the other way.  Post heat the air from the chimney and direct that into the room where you have the heater. There is a shipload of heat we don't recover from the Flue and even though we are using free fuel, it's just good engineering to make things as efficient as you can with simple modifications.

The only thing preheat can do is help briefly with cold start up. once the burner is up and running, there is more than enough heat to vaporize the oil and keep the thing going.  :0)
Alternatively, you could heat water instead of air using the half pipes welded to the Flue.

7

I have had the thought of fuel injectors for a while now and the research I have done says they will be a hard task.

Firstly to get them to spray you want as much pressure behind them as possible. From what I looked up most operate in the 40-60 Lb range. I was thinking 500-1000 PSI from a power steering pump but maybe that's not necessary?

The other thing and the main reason to use them is flow rate. For the burners I make and I would think most heating applications, they don't flow all that much oil. That could be OK though, you could use multiples and click them in for low, medium high,  or now wer'e talkin!

It also seems you can't run the things permanently wide open or the coils burn out. they are designed to be pulsed. There are some schematics on different sites to build these things and can be done with aurdinos but that's a bit beyond me. The drivers allow the injectors to be controlled in frequency and pulse width, IE, how long each squirt cycle lasts.

If they can't spray oil, they could still be used with a blown air type burner to control the amount of fuel delivered.
Just set them to inject into the airstream and let the air carry the fuel along into the burner.

I was thinking to buy the highest pressure caravan type pulse pump I can find. I think I Have seen them 140/150 PSI and try an injector with one of those and see how it works..... and for how Long!  :0)

8
User Projects & Pictures / Re: 600Kw output Drip fed burner.
« on: May 01, 2015, 12:52:40 am »

What you really mean is you never thought you'd ever have anyone on the forum CRAZY enough to do this kind of stuff!
I can understand why! :0)

I have been trying to get to the 750Kw test burn but the weather here has been wet for most of the last few weeks which is a bummer. I made one short lived attempt with the burner going out a couple of times till I figured that some how, my what I thought was sealed drum of oil had a lot of water in it.

Not much point trying to dry it till the weather dries out as well.

Yes, getting colder here fairly rapidly now. Days are around 20C with overnight temps getting to 10.
Another few weeks and we'll see peak daytime temps around 15 and night temps as low as -3 where I am but you typically only get a few of them a year. Mostly it would be around 2-5o minimums.

Getting to work seriously on the Veg powered home heater now.  Using a veg fired burner with an old gas hot water heater and a pump and car radiator to take the heat into the house.

9
User Projects & Pictures / 600Kw output Drip fed burner.
« on: April 14, 2015, 10:11:59 am »
I have been working on a new setup to get more power out of my burners.
1L of oil a minute or 600Kw has been a goal for some time and I have finally got there. I have been using these burners a bit recently to separate the aluminum from steel and other metal in car parts. A monster like this will allow whole engines to be melted down in under 5 minutes I reckon.

Here's a preview of the burner running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt9xvB_hmWk

I'll edit the full vid and get it up in the next couple of days.

I did a flow test on the fuel before the run and measured the consumption afterwards to confirm the output. As soon as I opened the fuel right up and it ran without going rich or smoking, I knew what I had achieved.  The surprise was how easily I did it.  I measured the fuel flow before and after and confirmed I was getting 600KW but as I had the thing wide open with 3 PSI fuel pressure ion a 3/8 line and got no smoking, it's clear the thing can do more.

I also got another blower to force feed the primary one and the flame of the burner got shorter and hotter indicating the thing was then leaning out.  I'll have to go to a 1/2" fuel line as I don't want to put any more pressure on the plastic fuel tank I'm using.
This thing isn't exactly a "drip" burner, the flow of 1L of oil a minute is a very healthy stream.  I don't know what it is in pure American standard of measurement being football Fields but it is one of your gallons in Under 4 min.  Be thankful your car doesn't get that although I imagine you'd have a smile on your face if it did.

I'm thinking this burner which has a 3" outlet and a 2.5" inlet may go to 750 Kw, maybe higher.  The next goal obviously is 1000KW. For that I'm thinking a 4" outlet and a 3" inlet will allow me to get to that level.  After that, there really is no point I suppose because the sky is the limit  depending on your ability to supply air and fuel.

I also bought another blower. It's a very specialized bit of gear which is a high speed, high pressure blower capable of putting out 60 CFM @ 13 PSI. This could make for an awesome torch/ jet like burner that will shreik like an old turbo jet of the '60's .  I'm thinking of something like a small stationary  rocket type motor and see if can get Mach Diamonds coming out the end which really would be rocket science as it indicates a flame speed above the speed of sound. not sure if that is possible on 13 PSI but I aim to find out!

:0)


I'll get the full vid up in the next couple of days to show the full setup and the fuel measurement.

10
Drip System / Re: My Heater
« on: March 13, 2015, 05:25:17 pm »
I think you are basically being mislead.

Unless others have posted a way to repeatably measure heat output, you really don't know what they are getting. Their space could be smaller than your, better insulated, in a warmer climate, they could have a different opinion of heat output or warmth to you...... and so it goes.

Of course there is also exaggeration or error. Are they really getting the heat they say or burning the amount of fuel they reckon? All I'm saying is as far as I can see, there is no definable and measurable way to know anyones specific heat output.  All we can go on at best is consumption.

As far as routing the flue, it dosent have to be horizontal, it can be at 45o.  I didn't notice where you had it routed  but if it is straight out or up, putting it horizontal wouldn't matter anyway because its the height of the opening at the other end at counts , not the length or angle.  If you look at the Swedish fireplace and other thermal mass designs, they have long horizontal and zig zagging  flues to extract the heat from the fire and store it in the stone thermal mass. This means they only light a small fire and the heat is retained in the masonry and is given off gently for many hours.

Without doubt, your greatest potential efficiency gains lie in the Flue and the heat you can harvest from that.

As for the heater body, are there any internal baffles to putsh the flame onto the sides of the thing? If not you could be sending an awful lot of heat straight out that short flue.  You could weld a pipe or several through the heater body and have a small fan blowing through those or a fan on the heater body itself. The cooler you make it on the outside the more heat will want to transfer where there is the greater difference. Heat always seeks out cold.

I made a stove/heater which is on one of my recent vids where I located the flue at the bottom of the body of the heater rather than at the top. The difference in the efficiency of the radiated heat was absoloutley unmistakeable.  A couple of my viewers have already tried his and reported that they found they were getting tons more heat as well.  I believe it would work well in this design because it would keep everything in the burner section a lot hotter and therefore allow lower burn rates.

While I haven't played with this particular design, I'm not unfamiliar with draft burners.  I would suggest on this downdraft design, if you can't get the burn rate down reliably, you are over cooling the thing. Restrict the inlet a bit to reduce the air in line with the reduced fuel and it should run hotter and more reliably.  Too much incoming air will over cool the burner and cause it to have trouble at lower outputs.

I also notice you have the fuel line looped around the flue to heat he oil. That's basically a fallacy in it doing anything. If the fuel flows well enough to get that far down the line, it will flow straight in through the shorter pipe.  Having the fuel pre warmed does nothing for the burner efficiency.  I don' know how this idea came about or why people perpetuate it but it's a complete waste of time and has more potential drawbacks by far than possible advantages.

At the end of he day, I wouldn't worry a lot about consumption, it's free fuel after all!



11
Drip System / Re: My Heater
« on: March 12, 2015, 03:52:23 pm »

I wasn't trying to criticise, only suggest.

At the end of the day, you are now burning 40Kw worth of fuel and saying you want to get the same heat out of 10Kw worth.
I don't think your efficiency, heat or burn, is that far off nor are you going to come close to the heating you want without a major change in the basic burner design.

12
Drip System / Re: My Heater
« on: March 09, 2015, 07:29:49 pm »
I have noe experience with this type heater ( I struggle to understand how they get the oil hot enough to vaporise and work) but as to your fuel consumption, If you are not getting smoke ( or much of it) out of the stack, Then that's about all the efficency you will get.

These things aren't like car engines, They are pretty straight out that the more fuel you burn, the more heat you get. 
At the moment you are getting somewhere around 30-35Kw.  If you get the consumption you want, you would only be getting 8-9 at best.  Is 1/4 of the heat you are getting now going to be enough?

The efficency factor is in the heat transfer not the fuel burn, given that the thing isn't smoking like a steam train up a mountain pass.  After that, it's really a matter of how much heat from the combustion you get into the space you want to heat.

One thing I see all the time and don't understand is when people pipe the Chimney straight out the wall or ceiling in the shortest possible time.  There is a LOT of heat going out that chimney.  The smart thing to do would be to put the stove as far from the outlet as possible and run the flue inside the structure so there is max surface area for the heat in the flue to radiate out.
I have seen some clever designs where people encapsulated the flue and blew air along the pipe and then ducted that to another part of the house or building or just welded bits of metal to the flue to increase the surface area.  You could also run pipes through the burner itself. Some people put a fan behind this hich make a big difference or just angle the tubes so the heat can convect.

The heater you have is pretty big and to run that on under a litre of fuel an hour I don't think is feasible.  You have too much thermal mass and convection area and will find as you seem to have the thing over cools and goes out.
People ask me all the time, " how much oil does it burn?" I say as much as you want depending on the amount of heat you need.  And thats really what it comes down to. 
Oil burnt = heat output.                 

13
Board Suggestions / Membership Drive
« on: February 21, 2015, 06:40:23 am »

I have 3500 subscribers on my YT channel that I feature all my oil burning designs and stupidity on.

Would it be allowed and or a good Idea to put something up about this forum to bring in some new people?

I haven't found anything else covering this subject matter but is sure is quiet round here.

14
Drip System / Re: Got a Drip?
« on: February 21, 2015, 06:36:33 am »

Drip Systems are my burners of choice although I prefer to call them Blown fuel because the units I built have a damn good flow, nothing like a drip.  I have built the Draft systems and they have their place but the forced air types with the oil fed into the air intake are by far my preferred system.

I have found and everything I have read with the draft types is that they need cleaning. The forced air types are self cleaning and to me, deliver more USEABLE heat than the draft types even for the same fuel consumption.  Forced air types are also easy to build and run totally clean unlike the draft types which need to be tuned pretty carefully. Getting a forced air or blown fuel type to run perfectly clean is pretty easy I find whether you are at high outputs or low.

With the forced air types I can control the fuel with a pump on a timer.  This allows a specific heat output and doesn't need re ajusting  to allow for the level in the fuel tank dropping or the oil becoming thinner and warmer etc.  It will do the same output all day long ( Ive tested it!) and no matter what the tank level or temp changes are.

I spose you could control a draft type burner like this but it would be tricky.

The biggest mistake I see people make with drip or vaporising type burners is they don't keep the principal of making sure the things stay hot in mid. Oil needs to change state from a Liquid to a gas in order to combust. To do that you want at least 300oC in the burner.   People seem to confuse the lack of retained heat for a lot of other things and then go off chasing the wrong problem, often compounding the difficulties they have.

I see in some interest groups like metal casting and Ceramics, Nozzle burners are very popular and thought to be the ducks guts. Always amazed me why this is. Some people are using a compressor, a blower and a fuel pump to make their spray burners work at a lower output than mine  but with far greater wear and tear on more support equipment and at way higher running cost.  I regularly run my Burners with a 12V fan from a car which means I can run them with that a fuel tank and a battery in the middle of a paddock with nothing else around for 10 miles.

I also notice that people that use nozzle burners have to go to a lot of work setting them up. It's easy to knock up a powerful forced air type burner in 15 Min out of scrap you have lying around and just by eyeballing it.  No expensive nozzles and endless fittings and you can carry what you need to run the thing in gym bag if need be.



Aww Geez! Do I have to take the forum entrance exam again every time I post???
that's going to get old very quick!




15
Welcome Center / Hello, My name is oil burner and I'm an Oiloholic. :0)
« on: February 21, 2015, 06:00:21 am »
Stumbled across this site and thought it might be right up my alley although it does look a little quiet here?
Seems I passed the entrance exam to be allowed in, never been through that to get in to a forum before. You guys must have some real good secrets locked away in here!!!  :0)

I'm in Sydney Australia which means when most of you are freezing your butts of in god forsaken snow, I'm sweating like a pig and getting sunburnt.  It also means I don't understand your out of date temperatures in o F, Whatever the heck that is nor do I have any comprehension of your standard units of length measurements, Football fields.  We, like the rest of the civilized world work in units of 10 called the metric system. :0)
A thong here is a rubber sandal you wear on your feet, equally for blokes and sheilas, of any age from birth to death.  It's NOT something that goes up the crack of your Klakka.

I make all sorts weird and wonderful burners most of which are ridiculously and impractically over-powerful.  I like fire and being in control of it, what can I say?
 If it's not doing 100Kw or 10L an hour, I can build one that will to relieve the painful boredom.  So far the most powerful Burner I have built burnt goes through 38L an hour of oil  or outputs 380 Kw and would do more If I can finally get my hands on something like a jumping castle blower. Or 2.

I have a Youtube channel under the same name where I show my exploits and have tutorials on building and operating different home made burners. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/glumpy10/videos

The channel is for men and women who are into DIY and getting their hands dirty. If you are a whining safely zealot Nazi, it's definitely not for you.  :0(
My belief is PPE is all fine and well but basically useless if your brain isn't engaged in the first place.  Uncommon sense is the most important piece of safety gear in my book.  Don't whine about me welding without gloves, it hasn't killed me or anyone else yet and I have no time for whingers that have never done so much DIY as nail 2 bits of wood together but think they have a duty to play mother hen on the internet to everyone that can.   ::)

The burners I make are designed for melting scrap metal to putting under your BBQ. I have used them for powering a water heater so I could have a hot shower when the electric one died recently to heating oil for processing to Biodiesel and just make big flames for the hell of it.   :P

For my upcoming personal projects, I want to make an oil burning heater for the house that is located outside and circulates hot water through a radiator inside.  I also have the heat exchanger from a boiler that was used to heat a council  Olympic size pool and want to finally get around to setting that up to heat my own swimming pool.  The HE is only rated at 200 Kw so I'll have to tame things down a bit so I don't melt the thing. That should give me a 20oC temp rise on my 70K L pool in about 12 hours.

I have also been running my Vehicle on used Veg oil for over 10 years now and I'm pretty familiar with that as well although I go against the grain of about 90% of what is preached with that because it's basically rubbish that people parrot and follow blindly without ever testing. I have and base my opinions and practices on demonstrated fact not what the last guy said  who followed what the guy before him did who followed the guy before him and.....

I have misspent a lot of my time following oily and often smokey pursuits and I hope to be able to contribute here and help some people avoid making the same mistakes I have and leverage their learning curve while being able to learn some things myself.

OK, now I have cured your insomnia, you can wake up now and go back to your regular Viewing.

Have Fun guys!

OB.




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