Waste Oil Heater Forum - Your definitive source for burning waste oil for heat.
Waste Oil Heater => Waste Motor Oil => Topic started by: ajparry89 on February 18, 2019, 07:26:46 am
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Hey everybody, I have an old style Clean Burn waste oil heater, bolted onto an old old coal boiler - something i inherited with the purchase of a property. anyways, I think i could use a new oil pressure regulator - for one thing, my gauge is not working at all, and plus, i constantly have to adjust the pressure, i think its cutting in and out. so my question is, where should i shop for one? im guessing i dont have to get it straight from clean burn, i feel like that might be an expensive route? any aftermarket ones available? sites to shop? im relatively new to burning waste oil, this is only my second year, and I haven't purchased anything for it yet! haha.
thanks for the help!
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So last Fall when I recommended you do a burner rebuild and install a service kit did you do that ?
On these old style burners the oil solenoid is before the preheat block so as the oil gets warmer/cooler oil pressure will fluctuate. Also make sure you are not sucking any air and have a constant steady supply of oil to the burner.
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No i did not do that yet. I have all the information saved on my phone, though, for when i am ready. I have not used it much this year at all, and didnt have the money in the start of the season. well, still dont lol. I actually thought about using my tax money and buying something totally different, like a heating oil boiler, for when i am away and not burning coal, which is why i did not invest the money in the waste oil burner, but now i am probably not making that investment right now.
Ok, well the pressure regulator I am talking about, is external, right as the oil comes into the burner, and there is a knob to adjust it. I was told by previous owner, that it should be set so the smoke coming out the chimney is clear (because the gauge doesnt work) so that is where i have kept it set. but then there are times that it seems starving, or suddenly pouring oil, and the smoke is very black, and i need to adjust it. sometimes it trips off, and i wonder if its cause of improper oil pressure, etc.
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Oil gauges are cheap and easy to change.
Like I said in my previous post oil pressure will fluctuate on these old style burners due to the location of the oil solenoid. With cold oil you will have to turn up the pressure so it flows enough through the small holes in the oil solenoid. Then after that oil warms up it flows easy through the oil solenoid so your flame grows and you adjust your oil pressure down.
The more consistent temp you can keep your oil storage at the less the pressure will fluctuate. Also big changes in oil viscosity will have an effect on oil pressure.
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Ok. I understand initially that the pressure will need adjusted as the oil heats up inside the block. but then after that, mine still constantly needs adjusted. or it just shuts off. i use it when I am going to be away for a day or more. I get it running fine well before I am leaving, like 12-24hrs before hand it works the whole time before i leave. but then when i come back home i find it tripped off and the house is cold - thankfully no broken pipe situations yet haha. when i come back home, i turn it back on, and usually it fires up fine - maybe a slight adjust of oil pressure initially, but it works fine. So i am trying to find out why it keeps tripping off, so it can become something a little more reliable.
You think it may be a viscosity issue? My oil is stored inside, in the furnace room. if its a viscosity issue, then i cant do anything about that.
what about this filter, pictured? I was told that as long as the gauge didnt get into the red then i didnt need to do anything. but the gauge has never moved in two winters, so i wonder if that is even working. should this filter be replaced? cleaned? removed? (I also have a large spin on filter in the line - are two filters necessary?)
Next question, last week I took the nozzle off to clean it, and i must have bumped the two points (whatever exactly they are called, im not sure, the two points where the spark arks across) because it wouldnt fire after that. So i pushed them a little closer, and then they worked. Is there a way to measure or know if they are set right? or as long as its sparking and igniting the flame, is that good enough?
thanks for your help shopspecialties, and anybody else!
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When the power is on the preheat block is always maintaining temp as determined by the adjustable block thermostat. The oil solenoid is BEFORE the preheat block so with this burner you will always have some fluctuation in oil pressure.
Your suction side plumbing is a mess with way to many connections where you could suck air. The spin-on filter is not necessary. Plumb it the way I showed you to ensure you are not sucking air and make cleaning the filters easy.
Yes, electrodes need to be adjusted properly.
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Awesome, thank you for the information shopspecialties!
Ok so are you saying, that it is normal that i continually 'manually' adjust the oil pressure by turning the external knob? I get it that the oil pressure will fluctuate. but i feel like it fluctuates to the point that causes it to trip off. is that normal? or do i just need to be standing by all the time to correct it? I guess what im asking is, if this was running ok, should it run all by itself for days without needing tweaked?
Ok, I will work on the plumbing, and eliminate that spin filter, and redo the lines, and adjust the electrodes.
does the other filter look right? is there something else that you would recommend?
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Lets start off by getting a working oil gauge to help diagnose what exactly is going on. Then you can watch the gauge to see if it is a slow fluctuate or a sucking air bouncing up/down.
The Lenz filter is good and is there a 3/4" check valve and pickup screen ?
Obviously a burner rebuild would be high on that list also.
Start getting all these little things right then see if we can find a happy medium with the settings so it runs all the time with just small occasional touch ups.
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I do not see a check valve or a pick-up screen. is the pick-up screen separate from that filter? would the check valve be in the line somewhere? - if so, then i dont see one. just copper tubing into that filter, then into the motor, then into the spin filter, then over to the furnace.
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The pickup screen goes in the tank to stop the big chunks and the check valve screws onto it to keep the oil from draining back after the burner shuts off.
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Ok, that I do not know, I have not pulled the line out, but I am pretty sure no, because it is just copper tubing going down into the tank. where should i get one of those?
question, does the oil furnace itself actually suck the oil, or is it just the pump doing the work of sucking out of the tank/pumping to the furnace?
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Your Clean Burn dist should have these parts, #32061 screen $16.90 and #32021 check valve $22.90
The pump delivers the oil to the burner.
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Great, thanks for the help!
Ok, so the only place for it to be sucking air would be between the pump and the tank, correct?
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The pump itself can suck air and at every fitting from it to whatever is at the end of the line. That is why I always keep the suction side short and simple with as few fittings as possible.
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Ok time to bring this back! I have purchased my rebuild kit, part number 70158 for my old style clean burn burner. I also have a new screen and check valve for inside the tank, a new oil pressure gauge, and a new external regulator that mounts right outside of my burner. The plan is to redo all my plumbing, i am going to move my pump to the top of my tank, with the cartridge filter right before it (should that be opened up and cleaned? any special method to cleaning that?) and then plumb it over to the burner. it is Ok for the oil line to go up to the ceiling and then back down to the burner? because it has to cross my walk way in the room.
next question..any special process, or tips, for rebuilding this? I am very mechanically inclined, in fact, I am a mechanic...that doesnt mean i know everything about a waste oil burner, but I am very capable of taking something apart and putting it back together with common sense, but I also have to common sense to ask first if there are details that I should know, things i should touch, etc, or if there is even a write up about how to rebuild it step by step. I do have the diagram for the spacing of the electrodes, but that is all I have
just as a refresher, I have also included a couple pictures of my kit, and my burner, etc.
thanks for all the help guys!
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The Lenz filter is a stainless steel element you can clean up in the parts washer. You can run your oil line over the top to the burner.
When you go to disassemble the preheat block a little heat on the plugs and elements will help them come out easier. Use gun cleaning brushes and solvent to get the inside of the block spotless. When going back together use a medium strength threadlocker and tighten till snug.
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Ok, cool thanks. so all these other O-rings and such, where are they located exactly? just so I am prepared. are they all within the block, or the disassembly of the block?
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Nozzle holder o-ring.
Oil/Air solenoid o-rings.
Air filter regulator o-ring.
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Oh Ok so do the solenoids actually disassemble themselves? i need to remove that C-clip on top of them?
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Yes, remove the C-clip and the electrical part slides off then you can remove the stem from the body.
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Ok so i have re-positioned the pump so it is right off the top of the tank, and the line comes up, through the cartridge filter, and right into the pump.
I have started disassembly of the burner. my disassembly questions so far are, 1. I can not find the location of the big O-ring, the flat rubber washer things, and that white screen. 2. besides the small O-rings down inside which i see, do the solenoids need to be disassembled any further than this/is it possible to further disassemble, or just clean them out as they are like this shown in the picture.
thanks for all your help!
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Also, I am looking for a replacement Eye. just preemptive maintenance, i guess. Mine is honeywell C554A1687, when I search it, i get a lot of Beckett 7006U, which says it also interchanges for the honeywell part number that i listed. is this correct information?
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The plumbing of the pump could have be simpler and better.
The big o-ring and white filter are for the air filter regulator. The flat rubber washer things are diaphragms for the air and oil regulators. You do not need to remove the pipe nipples from the solenoids just make sure you get them spotless on the inside.
That cad cell is fine.
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Ok, how could it have been more simple? i actually took every measure to make it as simple as possible i thought. i welded up that bracket so the pump sat right by the top of the tank. there is the filter, then it elbows right down to the bottom of the tank. unless you are referring to my 3 piece union...i wanted a way to be able to remove either just the down pipe or the filter/pump without needing to remove them all as a unit. that is the only junction of any pieces. simpler how?
I have a different air filter regulator on it then what it came with, so i am guessing that I wont be using those pieces then.
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This is how I do every single one of mine.
Pickup screen - check valve - 3/4" black iron pipe - 3/4" street L - Lenz filter - 3/4"male to 1/2" female swivel - 1/2" hex nipple.
I am very picky about this part but you are close and on the right track. Also you should never use Teflon on the suction side. I use Loctite #2 gasket sealant because it sets and will not get pulled through the threads like Teflon can.
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Ok good to know.
next, is there a part number for this piece? that spins around the outside of the air inlet for the fan, for more or less air. I took it off during cleaning, and to clean it cause everything was filthy, and lets just say it didnt make it very far through that process lol. or are there any tricks for a makeshift one?
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Braze, solder or maybe try some JB-weld ?
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So mostly good news....got it all back together, and it fired right up!! sounds a lot different too, like whistling more. not sure if thats just because its clean and working better or not...im not complaining, just commenting.
so under normal circumstances, what should the air and oil pressures be set to?
also, not sure why it would do this, or maybe its a different problem...but it seems to be smoking out of the furnace doors a lot more than it ever did before. is that simply a draft issue, or could that be something else? never had a draft problem. is that just because its not really cold out yet and its not drafting hard like it will in the cold weather?
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Put air at 12-14 PSI. Oil pressure ???? I would set oil pressure by looking at the flame if you have a viewport to make it easy. If you cannot see the flame then we play the guessing game.
The smoke could be from overfiring, plugged full of ash, bird nest in the stovepipe cap..........
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i can open the door and view my flame, yes. any easy way to describe a good looking flame? ive also gone by clear smoke out the chimney, is that correct too?
overfiring?
also, i notice that on the inside of the furnace door there is some insulation type material laid all over it, almost for the purpose of sealing the door? sort of like insulation you see in a house, but obviously it must be different, that stuff would catch on fire. when i cleaned out the furnace last year i think i accidentally cleaned some of that stuff off. is there insulation/sealing material out there meant for what i am describing?
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The flame should have a bright body with orange tips and no smoke coming out the stack.
Overfiring is when you have to much oil pressure and blowing smoke out the stack.
With this being some type of coal boiler and not a waste boiler I do not have a clue about the insulation. Is there a mfg nameplate on the boiler ? The insulation should definitely not be burning. Is it soaked in oil and the oil is burning off ?
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Well, I did have some flu issues, I fixed those, and no more smoking out the boiler! I got the air set to about 13psi and the oil set so the smoke is clear coming out the top. It is running great!
my only other question is, that piece that broke that i showed a picture of, the piece that opens or closes the air inlet to the fan (i fixed it, JB weld!)....how do i know how to adjust that? when should it be opened more, or when should it be closed more?
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You are going to want to adjust combustion air to where you find a happy medium. The more you close it the longer and brighter the flame. Open it up and the flame is short and orange. Having it to much open also pushes more heat out the stovepipe. That combustion air also throws the spark out into the oil stream so you do not want to have it closed off to small either.
Watch your watch flame and slowly adjust it to see how the flame reacts. Also when you open your inspection door you are adding combustion air which will shorten your flame and then it will grow back when you close it. So you need to remember to account for that also.
Good to hear things are improving and getting better.
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Ok, i will check that and adjust that and see how it goes.
yes, it seems to be running OK. it will get its first full night run tomorrow night it looks like, according to the forecast for central PA. Thank you very much for all your help!
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So i started up the furnace this evening to get it going for tonight. it fired right up, like usual, then it shut off after about 10 seconds and would not even come close to firing again. eventually realized that there is no oil spraying. my pump is on. oil is coming out the line right before it goes into the regulator. so i am guessing it is either the solenoid, or the regulator - which is brand new!
questions are.....
1. can i test the solenoid just by putting 120 volts to it, to see if it operates?
2. when i open the oil line, roughly how much/how fast should the oil be coming out? mine comes out like a steady flow/stream, but there is not tons of pressure behind it....enough pressure to make a little arch in the oil stream.
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What is your oil gauge reading ? Plugged nozzle ?
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i had the gauge set to about 4.5psi. i started messing with it from time to time after oil stopped coming out. i opened up the solenoid, and took that plunger out, then put it back together without it. oil eventually started coming out...and eventually it lit. and eventually it started running ok again. i also noticed that the electrical part of the oil solenoid was super hot. i assume that is maybe not working anymore? probably shorted inside or something and not working. i have it running right now without the plunger/valve piece inside the solenoid.
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Do not power the solenoid without the plunger installed. If the plunger was not opening oil pressure should go up. If you have any restrictions after the regulator oil pressure should go high. Was the oil gauge steady or did it bounce ?
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i disconnected the solenoid after i noticed it getting hot.
i guess i did not pay enough attention to the oil gauge to notice if it was bouncing or spiking or not. it has been running OK now, plunger removed and solenoid disconnected. i might have had it powered for a few minutes at one point while the plunger was not installed, maybe thats why it got hot? (trying to remember the sequence of events) is the solenoid no good anymore? did i ruin it? :/ Ok to let it run for now without the plunger in?
i really appreciate all your help all the time!
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The electrical part of the solenoid might be shot now. Leaving the plunger out is not a good idea. With no plunger oil will continue to drip out the nozzle when the burner shuts off. You can bench test the solenoid with just the stem and plunger. Power the solenoid on/off while on the bench to see if the plunger goes up/down.
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Ok, test it with 120v?
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Yes 120 volt. An old extension cord and a couple of wire nuts works good. That way you can plug and unplug it easy.
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tested the solenoid, it still works. so installed it all again, and it is running fine at the moment. not really sure why i was not getting any oil out the nozzle last night for that period of time. i guess we will wait and see how it goes. thanks for all your help!
also on a side note, it ran fine all last night. hadn't done that in a while! haha
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So everything has been running great! I have been very happy with it, it has met my "expectations", meaning I dont expect it to be a very efficient machine, but I do expect it to be able to work reliably, which it does. It seems to be going through oil just as fast last year (again, not outside of my expectations) but is running much more reliably, as i said, I have never had to check on it.
However, I wonder if i could 'expect' more out of it, more efficiency. I guess the only way that it could be running more efficiently would be if it could produce a hotter flame with still the same amount (or same ratio, i suppose) fuel/air ratio. more oil pressure means more oil, so turning up the oil doesnt exactly help that cause. I know we have mentioned adjusting the air inlet. I have it set where the flame 'looks' pretty good, and the smoke coming out my stack is cleaarrr. but if i wanted to try and fine turn it a little more to get a hotter flame, how should i do that? a little more air, and a little more fuel? just spit-balling. let me know if anybody has any thoughts.
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Ash buildup would be your biggest killer of efficiency.